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Call or fold?

Last post 01-01-2008 4:34 AM by The_Sorcerer. 12 replies.
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  • 12-08-2005 1:27 PM

    • Kram
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    Call or fold?

    $2-5 NLHE @ the Wynn(what's new?) and you're dealt Nine Diamonds Jack Diamonds in the cutoff, a few limpers and you limp in. The button, a new player to the table pops it up to $25. (He has a $300 stack, and you're sitting with about $1,000) 2 more callers in front of you and you decide to take a flop also.


    $100 in the pot and it comes down: Queen Diamonds Nine Hearts Seven Spade it's checked all the way around and you see a free turn card: Six Diamonds now - a lady that you've seen make some HORRIBLE all in calls for HUNDREDS of dollars and has some pretty erratic play - goes all in for $110 into a $100 pot. Player in between folds, and you still have the button to worry about. Do you make this call?




    "Poker is civilized war"



    http://kram420.blogspot.com/ -- Check out my blog!

    Kram




    • Post Points: 97
  • 12-08-2005 4:11 PM In reply to

    • Than
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    Re: Call or fold?

    No. (What the heck you are thinking about Kram?) - Than
    • Post Points: 5
  • 12-08-2005 4:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Call or fold?

    I agree with Than, what are you thinking about here. My cards are in the muck faster than (insert a metaphor for something really fast).
    • Post Points: 17
  • 12-08-2005 8:54 PM In reply to

    • Doc_4U
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    Re: Call or fold?

    Easy fold. You do not have astraight draw and you are drawing to the third nut flush. Even if you hit a second pair, you do not know if will be good against a higher two pair or a made straight (a see a lot of people play 8 10).
    • Post Points: 5
  • 12-08-2005 10:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Call or fold?

    lol.... I'm guessing you folded and she showed a semi-bluff or something, or you wouldn't have bothered posting this. I agree with the unequivocal folds.
    • Post Points: 5
  • 12-09-2005 3:40 AM In reply to

    • Kram
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    Re: Call or fold?

    Yeah, I folded immediately - I didn't even second guess myself, it was almost instant. Then, I encouraged her to show me her cards - for her to flip over two fucking 8s on an open ended STRAIGHT draw.

    WTF!
    • Post Points: 5
  • 12-09-2005 3:41 AM In reply to

    • Kram
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    Re: Call or fold?

    That's how bad these people play..................
    • Post Points: 5
  • 12-09-2005 7:05 AM In reply to

    • Jon
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    Re: Call or fold?

    She played it great, what did you put her on? What do you think she was thinking? No bet on the flop, maybe my eights are good, maybe the nines will fold, maybe the Q weak will call and I will make the straight, the nbutton has nothing or a monster. First to bluff wins that pot.
    What do you think she had? Weak queen, pocket tens?
    Question, were you going to bet if it was checked to you on the turn? Are you a little piffed casue she beat you to it, with a hand not as good as yours?
    A good post is a supple and yielding thing. It is meant to be argued with and challenged. It is a battle ground for ideas and should show some evidence of a fight or at least some preliminary skirmishes. It is good for igniting minds. It is not the be-all and end-all of a balanced and productive life, but it can touch off needed thoughts and actions.
    • Post Points: 5
  • 12-09-2005 3:39 PM In reply to

    • Than
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    Re: Call or fold?

    Laying down a (probable) winner... doesn't mean you didn't make the correct decision. I'd like to caution you about assigning blank mental statements about your opponents. Even very "bad" players can occasionally play hands correctly or well or whathaveyou. Your/my dislike for their play can get us into situations where we shouldn't be in, in the first place.


    So she showed your her cards...what a sweetheart. You've got to like this table. - Than
    • Post Points: 5
  • 01-13-2006 10:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Call or fold?

    All in. Second pair with a flush and a straight draw? Why not?



    *BTW: I am kidding. I would have mucked as quick as Hellmuth throws a tantrum over a bad beat.
    • Post Points: 5
  • 10-28-2007 3:01 PM In reply to

    • Jon
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    Re: Call or fold?

    I am thinking maybe now that I look at this thread again. Not yes or no, but what Kram did and most of you seconded, was automatic fold. And automatic fold seems to definitely be the wrong play, not to say that folding is the wrong play.

    You have about 2 to 1 on your money, is that enough for a flush draw, no, is that enough for your second pair, no. But against an erratic player, the nines could be good, and your decision about calling with the nines just depends on how well you have your opponent clocked. Now the button behind you to contend with is hardly a problem at all, they most likely missed the flop, any piece of that flop on the button and the player should of bet, the original raise came from a new player, and players do not tend to get to tricky when they first sit down.

    Add to that your other outs and the only reasons you cannot call this player is because it would be a bad call against the particular player or you do not have enough information to really make the call.

    I am thinking though that if you would have thought out the hand a little better, instead of going onto automatic fold, that a call is justified. You had no clue how likely it was that your pair was good. It really only needs to be good something like 15-20% of the time to make this call, add to that the outs you usually have, IE making a set and hitting your kicker, added to the flush out, you might have a call. The possibility of a bluff or semi bluff, your set/flush/two pair outs, the possibility she is betting a weak jack all only need to add up to 33% of the time to make your call even money. Kick in a little knowledge about the player and you only make the times you decide to call this bet more profitable.

    So I would:

    Fold against a tight player (Harrington contends that even really tight players are bluffing some of the time, like 10%, if you accept that, it is better then even money for the call, FD 20%+, slight possibility of a bluff at 10%, comes to 30%, add a few other outs and you are loosing money not calling)

    Call against a slightly erratic player.

    Call with a smile against a loose bluffer.

     

    A good post is a supple and yielding thing. It is meant to be argued with and challenged. It is a battle ground for ideas and should show some evidence of a fight or at least some preliminary skirmishes. It is good for igniting minds. It is not the be-all and end-all of a balanced and productive life, but it can touch off needed thoughts and actions.
    • Post Points: 5
  • 10-28-2007 3:20 PM In reply to

    • Jon
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    Re: Call or fold?

    PokerPlaya:
    I agree with Than, what are you thinking about here. My cards are in the muck faster than (insert a metaphor for something really fast).

     

    fast metaphors

    Ethopian at a donut shop

    An escaped felon at a Catholic Girls High School

    A 15 year old virgin with J-lo

    Me with J-lo

     

    A good post is a supple and yielding thing. It is meant to be argued with and challenged. It is a battle ground for ideas and should show some evidence of a fight or at least some preliminary skirmishes. It is good for igniting minds. It is not the be-all and end-all of a balanced and productive life, but it can touch off needed thoughts and actions.
    • Post Points: 17
  • 01-01-2008 4:34 AM In reply to

    Re: Call or fold?

    Since the world said fold, saying "call" isn't going to make me popular.

     Realistically, a lot of the time you're going to have 14 outs.

    Some of the time you'll have 11

    Some of the time you'll have the best hand.

    Against a wild player, case 3 will far outnumber case 2, and might outnumber case 1.

    Game theory says call.

     

    • Post Points: 5
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